The CodeBreaker Mindset™ Ft. Herman Bulls, JLL, Vice Chairman, Americas

The CodeBreaker Mindset™ Ft. Herman Bulls, JLL, Vice Chairman, Americas

Chitra Nawbatt (00:10)

Welcome to The CodeBreaker Mindset™, where leaders share the unwritten rules for success. I'm your host Chitra Nawbatt. Joining us today is Herman Bulls, JLL vice chairman of the Americas. Herman, welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Herman Bulls (00:24)

It's a pleasure to be here today. I'm happy to be here today.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:27)

JLL roughly $23 billion in revenue. Tell us about the company and how it's different than competitors like CBRE and Cushman Wakefield.

Herman Bulls (00:37)

Well, I want to start out by saying I started with the company when the revenue was about 25 million over 35 years ago. So the company has grown tremendously. And in terms of what sets us apart from others, it's really about the people. Okay. It's about setting a culture where the client and all of our stakeholders come first.

And obviously the stakeholders, when we look at stakeholder capitalism, something I do from my board seats and certainly there we're talking about our employees. We're talking about the communities we live in. So our people are definitely involved locally and nationally in organizations. We talk about our suppliers. We have diversity programs. For example, we have women programs. Want to make sure that everyone's involved.

And obviously, in the end, we've got to take care of our shareholders. And we've done a very good job of that as well.

Chitra Nawbatt (01:25)

Bring it to life for people in terms of what the company does. And you talked about different stakeholders there, what the company does and what does. What do those outcomes look like?

Herman Bulls (01:34)

Well, what we really do is we make beautiful places for people to live, work, play and learn. And what that does is at creating environments where people can fulfill their needs, be the best that they can be. And we start by doing that with our own employees, and we create those conditions for our, our, our clients and our clients.

When the market is going gangbusters, they need a lot of space when we're going into a recession, partly which we may be doing now. They need to understand how is it that we control our occupancy costs and make sure we get people who return to office and create that environment so that they can be the best to do so?

What do we do? We provide, specialized real estate in almost any category that you're looking up for. Talk about office retail, something that's very, very hot. Now data centers because we're going to talk about AI later. It takes a lot to do that. And we also hotels okay. Then a part of the firm that I actually started that is one of the fastest growing parts of the firm is our public institutions group, which helps federal, state and local government and colleges and universities with their own will.

Chitra Nawbatt (02:41)

Say you talked about joining the firm 35 years ago when it was that $25 million in revenue. Let's talk a little bit about your journey on how you got there, because you started in the Army, did a little bit of time in the Pentagon, were a professor at West Point. You also sat on three public company boards Influence Energy, Host Hotels, Comfort Systems.

So talk a little bit about your journey on how you got to JLL.

Herman Bulls (03:05)

Well, it started in Florence, Alabama, believe it or not. When it was time to graduate from high school, kid of the 60s, down in Alabama, predominantly white schools, 16% black. And I was fortunate enough to not only be the starting quarterback, which was very, very unusual back then, but I was also president of the student council, had an opportunity to do a lot of things, chose to go to West Point, took the challenge of West Point and from there had some of my greatest, heroics in life and had some of my greatest disappointments that we'll talk about later.

Then after West Point, joined the Army, had a very, good career. So they sent me, actually to Harvard Business School for an MBA, went back to West Point and taught, and after doing that went to the Pentagon, for a couple of years and then decided that I wanted to do, real estate that I learned about at Harvard.

And that's when I went and joined, JLL.

Chitra Nawbatt (03:59)

And 35 years later. How did you how did you navigate to being a vice chairman?

Herman Bulls (04:03)

Well, well, you know, I was that's.

Chitra Nawbatt (04:05)

That's a pretty big title.

Herman Bulls (04:06)

Yeah, yeah. I was very fortunate that I've been entrepreneurial my entire life. And I started out in our development group, which is very entrepreneurial because you've got to make decisions in terms of bringing, what the client and the market needs with the financing sources, with the construction sources, with the governmental sources to get all the permits and everything.

So it's a great job. And I did that for about a year and a half. Then I went into our investment management area, where one of the largest parts of our company as well, where we, work with sovereign wealth funds, pension funds. We have, about $80 billion worth of capital that we manage on their behalf by investing in real estate.

And then I had this idea that public real estate had not been really treated professionally. So I started this public institutions group with my first assignment working with the General Services Administration right here in Washington, DC. And that has grown to be a phenomenally successful. And, I really love giving back. And this is a way where you can do good and do well at the same time.

Chitra Nawbatt (05:11)

And everything you've just described, there's a lot of rules. So I want to get into the rules of the game. You also on touched on, some of the market dynamics impacting JLL. What is the top tailwind, that the company that the industry has and what's the unwritten rule that you're leveraging to seize that opportunity?

The Rules of the Game

Herman Bulls (05:32)

Well, the tailwinds we're tracing are anytime there is a economic downturn, people look for what how can we do things more efficiently? And if you look at any organization, you look at the most, the items where organizations spend the most money, people, technology and space. So we're in the top three. So when we can help people do that, it's very, very important.

So you have this situation now where return to office is a big issue. Okay. I personally believe that people should come into the office, particularly women and minorities, because that is where you get some of those unwritten rules so you can watch what's going on. You can, integrate that into your own, activities and well-being so that the those are some of the, tailwinds and another tailwind, which we are really taking advantage of is technology integrated into real estate.

We have an organization called spark where we actually put hundreds of millions of dollars a year that we invest in companies that are basically we call it real estate tech, everything from sensors in the seats to know who's coming into the office, to, making sure that the, waste is taken care of in the appropriate manner, their technology to do all of these things.

So those are some of the, tailwinds that are helping us. And then again, it all starts. I want to go back to this forever mission. First, people. Always.

Chitra Nawbatt (06:57)

What's the barrier on the flip side, what's the barrier? The top barrier to profitable growth and your unwritten rule to navigate that?

Herman Bulls (07:05)

Well, some of the barriers we face are obviously when interest rates go up, capital is more scarce to go into real estate. That is certainly one, the fact that we've had remote work means that there is less demand for office space, and people have to look for the basis to be efficient. So we have to find a way to do well and expanding markets as well as contracting markets.

That's certainly it. And I'm going to tell you, one, that we always focus on people. There's a war for talent. And one of the things, even though we're in a phenomenally challenging time from a, geopolitical perspective on people making sure that you have a workforce, I just got a phone with a client, that happens to be African American that's making a decision on who to hire.

And one of his criteria is, I want a group to work on my account that looks like my organization and my aspirational goals.

Chitra Nawbatt (08:01)

So people in this environment, is that still important? There's different kind of narratives in the country right now and in other parts of the world. Your perspective?

Herman Bulls (08:10)

Well, you mentioned, the boards that I'm on. So in addition, USAA and I'm also one of the governors of the American Red Cross International National Organization. I'm also vice chair of the board at United States Military Academy at West Point, our alumni association. Each of the boards that I'm associated with, they are consistent with my values, and my values are that we need to create an environment where all people, all people, can be what they can be.

Okay, so with that, what is changing is the narrative of how you do it. Now, you know, you can be stubborn and say, I'm going to have my chief diversity officer, we're going to do this, and we're going to have this or people to go. That is going to be tough. In this environment, however, you have to make sure that the underlying values, values of the people that you're working with is consistent with this idea that all men and women are created equal.

Chitra Nawbatt (09:13)

Using this word consistent. Let's, stretch that to enduring because your career has been enduring. And so is there a consistent written rule and unwritten rule that has served you in your success as a leader?

Herman Bulls (09:27)

Well, let me start with the unwritten rule. And my kids give me a rough time about this. And I always say regulations or guidelines. Okay. So you start with that. Now you have to understand that there's certainly parameters, but if you do everything the way that everybody else does it, you're never going to be differentiate. So how do you differentiate yourself and keep it as something positive.

So that that's one of my unwritten rules that regulations or guidelines and in terms of things that I do and I'm going to say one of the best things I do for everything I've done, it comes down to relationships. And this is the way I look at relationships. I give a speech, kids come up, they say, I want to network with you.

Now, networking at its basic tenet is very good. However, networking is very transactional. You do something for me, I do something for you. What I've done since I was 16 years old. I told you I was president of student council. I do something called connecting. When you connect with people, you're willing to do something for or with them without expectation of what you're going to receive in return.

And when you can do that authentically, you can do that consistently. You form what's called a relationship, and you use the word that is so important. Enduring relationships are enduring. Even with my clients, with my friends, something goes wrong and you have a relationship. You're able to work through it for the betterment of both people.

Chitra Nawbatt (10:56)

Let's get into the pivots. Because whether it's in the corporate world of JLL or from your Army days, you would be accustomed to the voluntary and the involuntary pivots. Talk about a significant, business situation where you lead a pivot.

The Pivots

Herman Bulls (11:14)

The leading of the pivot would be actually establishing this group within JLL called public institutions. Okay? And I tell everyone their risk and everything you do. And in this instance, probably the biggest risk for me was a reputational risk. You worked on something, you had an idea and it didn't work. However, nothing ventured, nothing gained. So I saw an opportunity for public real estate that they were not getting the same level of expertise and advice, and I basically went out and got the marketing department to put some pamphlets together for me, and I got on the street here in Washington and started going to agencies, and lo and behold, it worked.

And when it work, you know what everybody in the firm said? Wasn't that a great idea, Herman? But we did when there was some resistance because the government had this reputation of being hard to work with. And it wasn't easy money. We had some of the largest margins in the company come out of my business.

Chitra Nawbatt (12:14)

So how do you spot the signals and whether it's from your training in the Army or in the corporate world, how do you spot the signals and develop your pattern recognition?

Herman Bulls (12:23)

Part of the things that I do, and this really comes in handy. And the board work I've served on seven, six, seven public company boards over my career, and there's something to being a contrarian, okay. And to be a good board member, for example, I tell people it's not about knowing the answer. It's not about how smart you are.

It's about knowing what questions to ask. So the pattern recognition is looking at something. And I go back to, President Kennedy's quote, you know, don't ask what you can do. You know, what you can do for you, what can you do for your country? And I look at opportunities like that the same way, saying, what is it that I can do?

Because we come back now to that relationship that we talked about and being a connector. And when you're a connector, as in your business, you get a little information here, you get a little information there, you get a little information there. My view of the world is totally unique to me. Based upon I said at a board at USAA, I'm doing financial services.

I'm an American Red cross. We're dealing with catastrophes and with Fluence Energy. We're dealing with sustainability and battery energy. And you put all that together with your network. And it it's a it's a beautiful thing.

Chitra Nawbatt (13:39)

You talked earlier about sensors, technology artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence is the new norm. What is the biggest use case at scale that JLL is investing in. Tell us about that. What's the kind of dollars you guys are putting behind it? The outcomes.

Herman Bulls (13:58)

Yeah I'll keep the dollars. I won't I won't discuss the dollars. But I will say that we're definitely going into it. And one of the things we've done is definitely we started with a smaller group with copilot, right. To make sure that everyone can use it, and people are using it for scheduling and even and I'm even using it now on some of my routine emails.

I mean, it just saves you. I get 2 or 300 emails a day, you know, maybe 100 of them I really need to think about. And I can put, take about a minute and a half or, you know, two minutes. So that gives me almost another hour a day in productivity from doing it. So we're using it to, for example, do research on companies where we're putting proposals.

Right. And obviously we have a walled in, we're not putting all of our stuff out there for everybody else to use. So we're using it there. We're using it to look at use cases for occupancy in buildings to understand how do you do the automated systems to make the lights and the heat and the Hvac come on and go off and that make sure for security purposes, for the lights, when people walk by for, energy savings, to make sure that you're not heating a space or cooling a space that no one is in.

And we are making, I'm going to say we're making significant investments and I tell everybody about AI and all the boardrooms. I mean, as well. It's one of the best things that happen. It has the potential to be one of the worst things that happen, and it's very important that there be appropriate governance around use of it and making sure people are taking your information, putting in ChatGPT and your trade secrets are going out the out the window, etc., etc..

Chitra Nawbatt (15:34)

So how are your customers, your stakeholders responding? Talk about stakeholder experience, whether it's customers, partners to what you guys are doing with.

Herman Bulls (15:42)

AI, you know, what they're doing, what I do and what I say is that when we make the pie bigger, let's decide how we're going to split the pie up in terms of the efficiency that that may be gains. So so people are saying, look at that. Some people and in this goes with particularly, people like myself, the baby boomers that, you know, we're, we're, we're literate with technology, but we're a little suspect of it at the same time.

So you got to say, they say all my data is out there and anybody can get it. And, you know, I say that there are two types of companies, those who have been, you know, compromised with their data and those that are going to be compromised. So that's a real concern. And we've got, with, I, I think that's becomes even a bigger risk.

Chitra Nawbatt (16:33)

I want to talk a little bit about what I call the magic, and going back to what you talked about coming out of high school, going into the into the military. What's your definition of serendipity versus intuition?

The Magic

Herman Bulls (16:46)

Well, serendipity in a way, is, I call it when preparation meets an opportunity that serendipity. Okay. And the, the, the issue is to use an army term to be all you can be every day. However, there's a difference between working hard and working smart. Okay, so the leverage of relationships, for example, one of the things that I think makes me valuable to my boards and to my company is that I have the ability to absorb something.

Then I have the ability to pick up the phone, and I could probably call 2 or 3 people to help enhance my understanding of it, or to enhance a business opportunity or whatever. So those two relationships are important. And I really talk about very, very quickly six characteristics that are critical for success. Interpersonal skills. That means being a lifelong learner so you can interact with people from all places.

Being a great communicator, communication which you're an expert in. And that's what speaking, that's writing, that's listening. And it's body language as well. And then we talk about your, analytical skills, both a quantitative and qualitative basis. And what did I really focus on and people should focus on is leadership. And I define it simply as the ability to lead a group to accomplish a common goal.

And then we take something that, I've got it's sort of naturally risk taking or entrepreneurship. You've got to have that for your career. You've got to have that for, you know, your business. And that's so important. And then last but not least, take a little bow, a passion and put around those five characteristics and you're going to have success.

Chitra Nawbatt (18:35)

So the aggregate of all of that crystallizes into what you talked about. Your definition of serendipity, where preparation meets opportunity, where has serendipity played a critical role in a business outcome?

Herman Bulls (18:49)

Well, I'm actually to go back to serendipity, where I thought it was one of the worst things that ever happened to me, and it turned out to be actually one of the best things. And that is, I was recruited to play football at West Point, and I was a very good high school player. However, I probably wasn't that good that I was going to go into the NFL, and I had a coach, Homer Smith, and a lot of your listeners will know his name.

Unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago and he called me in one day and he said, Herman, you're never going to start in the Army Navy game. That was one of the most disappointing days of my life. Since sixth grade. I played for sports in high school. Okay, it's at sixth grade. I'd gone to a sports practice every day.

And what happened after that? My tactical officer is an individual at West Point that oversees a company, he said. I had very good peer leadership ratings, and there's something called Ranger School, and it's the most demanding, realistic combat training that the Army has. The Navy has the Seals. Seal training. And he said, Herman, I was Volun told you're going to Ranger school.

So I went to Ranger School. And as a result of that game, the independence and desire and what I learned from that training is your limits are not where you think they are, okay? It's not physical. It's here and here. And when you go through those very stressful situations, I can look back now and I'm having a bad day.

You know what I say? I'm not in Ranger school.

Chitra Nawbatt (20:30)

On that notion of limits, what do you say to people when some external force wants to put an artificial ceiling, an artificial limit on your life, on your possibilities? You talked earlier about the all that you can be, right. That's a consistent in our conversation. What is that fortification process building your armor. What's your advice when shielding or deflecting external forces that want to put limits on our life and our possibilities?

Herman Bulls (21:03)

I probably spend some part of every week responding to that question in some way, in terms of the mentoring that I do, first of all, to people inside the firm and due to my profile, I get a lot I get more entries, for requests and I can handle just by the sheer numbers. However, particularly for the people inside the country, inside the company.

The first thing I ask them to do, because if something happens, you know, call Herman and see what you can do. First thing I tell them to do is let's do introspective analysis, because you can't fix a problem unless you know what the problem is. And many times, and we all have what that block of, we don't know that we don't know.

And that's the first thing I talk to people about, understanding that that block exists. And then when you come to the realization that that is somewhere, then let's talk about the facts and the circumstances that resulted in this challenge or this particular point in life that you're at. And then you say, okay, we're going to backwards plan another military concept.

This is where you want to be. This is where you are now, where are key intermediate steps in between that you need to get to so that we can get from where we are to what this desired outcome is. Number one. Number two, self-pity is the devil's work, okay? Life is not fair. And you're going to have things that are not going to go your way and you're going to get a strike called when it was really a bomb.

Okay. You can't take your ball and go home and say, I'm not going to play. You have to have that passive perseverance to say, okay, I got it, and I know me. I get some bad calls from here and there, but I'm going to keep the mindset. I'm going to use those six qualities that I talked about earlier, okay?

And I'm going to persevere through it.

Chitra Nawbatt (22:58)

You've touched on it. But to conclude, what's your advice on how to cultivate The CodeBreaker Mindset™?

Herman Bulls (23:05)

I think, to summarize it, I would say it's very important to understand that rules and regulations are guidelines. So that starts with not putting yourself on a track that you've got to do what society or everybody else expects, right? But you've got to be within some norms anyway. That's number one. Number two, the importance of relationships. No man or woman is an island.

Any success that you and I have had, it's been a result of input support from others. And ask yourself, we all know someone that's very, very, very talented, but they have other characteristics. You say, he or she, they're good. But didn't you have other people that may not be as talented, but they're fundamentally, authentically good people. And you want to do what to good people.

You want to support them. So ask yourself how you can authentically be that person that people want to support, because you cannot do it by yourself. It takes a village.

Chitra Nawbatt (24:11)

Herman, thank you so much for joining us.

Herman Bulls (24:14)

It's a pleasure to be here.

Chitra Nawbatt (24:17)

Thank you for supporting The CodeBreaker Mindset™. For more episodes, go to www.ChitraNawbatt.com to like and subscribe. Connect with me on social media @ChitraNawbatt .