The CodeBreaker Mindset™ Ft. Vanessa Broadhurst, Johnson and Johnson, EVP, Global Corporate Affairs

The CodeBreaker Mindset™ Ft. Vanessa Broadhurst, Johnson and Johnson, EVP, Global Corporate Affairs 

Chitra Nawbatt (00:00:10:14 - 00:00:24:25)

Welcome to The CodeBreaker Mindset™, where leaders share the unwritten rules for success. I'm your host Chitra Nawbatt. Joining us today is Vanessa Broadhurst, Johnson and Johnson's executive vice president of global affairs. Vanessa, welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:00:24:28 - 00:00:29:24)

Thank you so much for having me. I am really happy to be here.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:00:29:26 - 00:00:42:14)

Johnson and Johnson is the largest health care company in the world with almost $90 billion in revenue. Tell us about Johnson and Johnson and how it's different from its competitors like Pfizer and Merck.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:00:42:20 - 00:01:09:13)

Yeah. So thanks for the question. So Johnson and Johnson is a very large health care company. And it actually functions in two areas. One, it has a large pharmaceutical group which specializes primarily in oncolytic therapies. So looking for cures for cancer. We focus in the areas of neuroscience as well as immunology amongst our portfolio. And then we also have our medtech side.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:01:09:13 - 00:01:34:13)

So in medtech think of you know, if you've had stitches a a some sort of injury, chances are you've used a Johnson and Johnson product. That's everything from, you know, surgical implants, hips and knees, sutures, surgical robotics, interventional cardiology solutions. We have the world's smallest heart pump. So it's just a very large portfolio of life changing and sometimes life changing products.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:01:34:15 - 00:01:45:18)

On the life changing. Let's double click on talk a little bit more about the varying stakeholders you have and some of the outcomes, key outcomes driven to each of those stakeholders.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:01:45:21 - 00:02:08:18)

Sure. Did you want me to start? So, you know, our primary stakeholder in the health care space is really what we call HCP. These are practitioners, whether they be physicians and nurses. We also have a large customer base within hospital systems. So those are the folks that we actually talk to primarily and focus on in terms of stakeholders for our products.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:02:08:19 - 00:02:37:29)

We're a scientific innovator. So you can imagine we have many stakeholders in the health care ecosystem. But we are we are truly focused on innovation. So, you know, from a pharmaceutical standpoint, you need to do the clinical trials. You need to work with external organizations, to make sure that those progress. We obviously have a large stakeholder in the government with, you know, relationships with CMS and HHS, and FDA is critically important.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:02:38:05 - 00:02:57:24)

So many, many stakeholders in the system. But our primary stakeholders are the obviously, the patients that we serve, that we think about every day that need to, you know, find themselves in a situation where they need healthcare solutions and they need to use our therapies. But also the physicians that treat them.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:02:57:26 - 00:03:07:06)

Talk about how you build your holistic knowledge and expertise in pharmaceuticals, because you've been in the industry now for about 30 years, right?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:03:07:07 - 00:03:09:15)

I can't believe it, but it is a fact.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:03:09:18 - 00:03:39:21)

And and and how that's additive in your role on the executive committee as a direct report to your CEO? Because even at Johnson and Johnson, you've led several multibillion dollar businesses such as infectious disease, cardiovascular and metabolism. You started your career at Abbott, then Novartis, Amgen. So talk about your journey in pharmaceutical, the different functions and disciplines you've had and how it's value additive to you as a leader.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:03:39:23 - 00:03:59:00)

So I love the question. I, I will start by saying I am not the traditional head of corporate affairs. Right? When I look at my peer sets in the industry and even outside of the industry, many people in my role come in through the communication function. They come in through government affairs function. But I have a bit of a different background, as you mentioned.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:03:59:00 - 00:04:17:20)

I came up through the business and the way that you build your knowledge to the business is, you know, it did take years. And I think of my career a little bit more like a patchwork quilt. And I have the opportunity to talk to and mentor individuals. And I've had those opportunities across four companies and over many, many years.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:04:17:23 - 00:04:42:25)

And what I what I tell them is this is I actually started out of my MBA program as a sales rep in the pharmaceutical industry. So I carried the bag. I was out there in the field in California and Northern California, and that's where I started. And from there I moved into business analytics. Business analytics is where I think I honed a little bit of the secret sauce of insights.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:04:42:25 - 00:05:05:08)

And let me tell you why this was important, because then when I went into marketing, I knew the data that could be collected in the external environment and you could have the conversation with the market research and analytics department to really understand insights about the customers that we were trying to reach. And therefore, I was a better marketer.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:05:05:08 - 00:05:29:25)

Right? I spent I spent many years in marketing and then ultimately and marketing, you know, and sales leadership within what was Abbott. It's now AbbVie and ended up as a general manager on one of their one of their largest businesses. And then, you know, this is where I have a little bit of a mantra and, that I use with my career, and I'm happy to share it with you.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:05:29:28 - 00:05:50:06)

It is, you know, okay, literally, what's the worst thing that could happen? And I and I use this in my own personal decision making with my career, because I think a lot of times people have fear. They have fear to make changes. They have fear to make different choices. And I was like this early in my career.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:05:50:08 - 00:06:12:29)

Early in my career, I spent a lot of time thinking about, okay, what's that? Right, next job I have to get that job and the newest product or the biggest product. But the real answer is you have to be a continuous learner, right? So when I was a general manager at Abbott, I had my first daughter and then, in discussions with my husband.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:06:12:29 - 00:06:34:06)

He had lived and worked in Europe before, and he wanted to do it again. Right. I had been in the company for nine years. I was working and living in Chicago. I am from Chicago. We made a decision to take our baby and move to Switzerland and go work for Novartis. Right? Big decision. A decision that many people would not make.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:06:34:08 - 00:07:07:16)

But at the end of the day, what it came down to is what is the worst thing that could happen. And I had to really think about that. Am I never going to be able to live in Chicago again? Am I going to fail? And, you know, washout as a leader or in taking this opportunity to go into a global function, get closer to R&D, was I going to learn skillsets that would make me marketable, whether or not I liked that next job, whether or not I felt the company was a fit for me, and that's the way I focused the rest of my career.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:07:07:18 - 00:07:34:16)

So I went to Novartis for several years, as you mentioned, and then I was recruited to Johnson, and Johnson and I came into their global business and then had the opportunity to do really, really exciting. And for me, very personally motivating things. I got to build out the sales and marketing organization for their newly, you know, created, cardiovascular metabolic area, which got to launch two major products.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:07:34:22 - 00:07:56:17)

I went on to be president of infectious disease, president of CVM. And then as happens when you are managing a dual career and you have complications like children and parents and all of these different things in the ecosystem, there came a period of time where, you know, we had to make some family decisions again about where we were living and working.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:07:56:24 - 00:08:26:10)

And I made the difficult decision at the time because I love my job. I love the company to go and work for Amgen in California again. Hey, what's going to happen? Well, what's the worst thing that could happen now? What's the best thing that's going to happen? But really, what's the true risk in making this decision? Learning more, going to a biotech company, really understanding a different management team, a different culture, a different group of of business issues and situations.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:08:26:12 - 00:08:50:04)

So we went to Amgen and I was there for four years and I, I led their immunology group, I built their cardiovascular business. And I also, ran their bone business. And then, you know, I, I was asked, you know, to rejoin the company by, that was pretty well fostered by our members of our current executive committee.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:08:50:06 - 00:09:12:25)

And I came back and I came back, because of all the companies that I work for. And I think this is also a very important insight and learning. You spent a lot of time at work. I spent a lot of time at work. These jobs are are pretty taxing. They take a lot of hours and what I found is it's really important to work with a group of people that you enjoy working with.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:09:12:25 - 00:09:33:03)

And I have that privilege at Johnson and Johnson. I do not take that lightly. The culture that you're in, the relationships that you have. And I don't mean superficially. I mean the people when you are in have to do the hard things. You're in the trenches that you're with matter in your day to day enjoyment and satisfaction in your job.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:09:33:10 - 00:10:00:02)

And that's why I returned to Johnson and Johnson. And, you know, I was fortunate to come into a president role and that I was something called we call a company group chairman. So I ran our global strategic business within the pharmaceutical group. And then when we had a transition of CEOs, I was asked by our, I guess it was our incoming CEO and our then, you know, chairman to step into this role on the executive committee of Johnson and Johnson.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:10:00:03 - 00:10:23:08)

It's been an honor and a privilege. This job is completely different than anything I did in my in my past. But I think everything I did in my past prepared me for this job because I have gone across four companies, I've gone across multiple therapeutic areas and had to demonstrate that I can learn new things, lead different types of people.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:10:23:10 - 00:10:41:03)

You know, they're small molecules, pills, injectables, hospital products, different, you know, disease states to manage. And, I think I've gotten pretty lucky because essentially I fell into an industry that I, that I really love and a company that I like to do that.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:10:41:06 - 00:10:45:14)

What's the muscle you're stretching in this current role?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:10:45:16 - 00:11:19:10)

So the muscle of stretching in this current role is to your point. I was pretty much a pharm person before this in this role, when I stepped in, we had three sectors at Johnson and Johnson Consumer. We separated our consumer business, a little over a year ago, our pharm group, which I, you know, had significant experience in and then our medical technologies group and sitting in this role, I got to see the comprehensiveness of those businesses because my group supports all of that.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:11:19:10 - 00:11:42:06)

Right? I also, was able to step onto the ELC, and all of those experiences helped me to be a better executive leader at Johnson and Johnson helps me to express and, have conversations at that table, with the basis of knowledge that I've developed through the significant businesses that I've led.

The Rules of the Game 

Chitra Nawbatt (00:11:42:08 - 00:12:24:08)

So given that tremendous breadth and depth of experience and expertise, let's get into the rules of the game and how you leverage that portfolio of knowledge in guiding your decision making around how you navigate. So talk about in the context of Johnson and Johnson, the industry, the top tailwind, top headwind that the company is facing. So let's set that context first and then let's get into how do you leverage the your algorithm, your mindset, the unwritten rules that you've learned on how you operate?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:12:26:04 - 00:12:52:02)

Yeah. There are so many ways I could go with that question. We work in a business that's based on innovation, right? So you know, the the secret within the pharmaceutical space is that you need that innovation. And some of that is really, really solid science and some of it's serendipity. Right. So you need to make sure that you have a robust pipeline of products that you're continuously developing.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:12:52:02 - 00:13:10:26)

Because we don't have IP that lasts forever in this industry. Right? You come, you build a product, and then ultimately there are generics or biosimilars that come in and erode, you know, that that value. And that's how the system is, is set up to work. So I would say that, one of the headwinds is also one of the tailwinds.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:13:10:26 - 00:13:30:26)

And that is you need the science, right? You need that serendipity. You need a great R&D organization. But once you have that and you really have breakthrough innovation, those are, you know, really spectacular, innovative products that you can bring to market and continue your growth trajectory.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:13:30:28 - 00:13:44:15)

And then unwritten rules. How do you how do you apply? Yeah, you're whether it's analytics, a particular skill set. Talk about the unwritten rules that you leverage in how you lead in this context.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:13:44:17 - 00:14:02:12)

So one of the things that I bring to the table as a business leader, coming into this space and understanding some of the dynamics deeply within the businesses is I look at everything through a business lens, everything. Right. So, for example, one of the areas that I have underneath me is our Johnson and Johnson Foundation, our philanthropic efforts.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:14:02:14 - 00:14:25:15)

And when I think about that, I'm like, okay, where's the business plan? Right. Where's the business plan? You know, you look at other five and see threes. They have business plans, right? You don't have to be profitable to need a business plan. So, you know, really thinking about that marketing and business lens and everything that we do and tying it back to the business, I, I think what we do is so important.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:14:25:15 - 00:14:47:06)

And what I encourage my employees in my organization is to really continue to get a depth of knowledge and understand the business, because that's how we contribute best to it. So in terms of, you know, what's the secret sauce? What do you really need to focus on to be successful? I think the base level thing is always you have to deliver, right?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:14:47:08 - 00:15:07:11)

So set you know, you set your goals and objectives. You talk about what you're going to achieve, but you have to do it because the only way to get from, you know, starting out in an organization or in your career to the top is you're going to have to deliver, you're going to have to be successful in, you know, leading and motivating your employees, creating followership and delivering on business results.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:15:07:11 - 00:15:12:08)

So that is kind of the key, the base keys to the kingdom. Right?

Chitra Nawbatt (00:15:12:10 - 00:15:23:06)

Before we get into the pivots, I want to just touch on boards because you talked about being an operator or being an executive committee member. Let's talk about the public board. 

Written and unwritten rules to be an effective board member and a specifically an effective public company.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:15:29:18 - 00:15:33:28)

So I can tell you why I was attracted to Zoetis 

Chitra Nawbatt (00:15:33:28 - 00:15:35:06)

Which is the largest animal health company. 

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:15:35:06 - 00:16:03:17)

Right. And that's one of the reasons. So I'm a busy executive working mom. I have, you know, two daughters. And for me, as a sitting executive, as I was thinking about board service and as I was thinking about the fact that I still have runway and things I want to do in my career, I also had to make sure that it fit within what motivates me, and the thing that attracted me to Zoetis is it's animal health.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:16:03:18 - 00:16:26:15)

So think about monoclonal antibodies for dogs instead of humans. Right? So it it is something that I'm interested in. It's something that it's in my wheelhouse of knowledge. I can read it and understand it and comprehend it. And then, you know, I think there's the secret as a board member is that you're not on the operating committee at Johnson and Johnson.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:16:26:15 - 00:16:51:20)

I'm on the operating committee. I have to, you know, make sure on the day to day, operationally, we are we are doing what we need to do, especially within my function. At Zoetis, it is, you know, you're essentially as a board, it's governance. So making sure that they have the right, you know, risk assessments and, succession planning and, you know, governance of that corporation.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:16:51:20 - 00:16:56:21)

But it's a different level of, leaning in is what I would say.

The Pivots

Chitra Nawbatt (00:16:56:24 - 00:17:04:12)

Let's get into the pivots. Talk about a significant business pivot that you've led.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:17:04:14 - 00:17:24:00)

A significant pivot... I've built franchises. I mean, I think that's the biggest pivot you can have, right? So when I was at, you know, I've had two opportunities to actually build businesses from scratch within the pharmaceutical industry. And that's not an experience that a lot of people get because these are very, very large products, very, very large.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:17:24:02 - 00:17:49:15)

You know, large build. So I think that is, you know, thinking about everything from like the first hire on your team is probably the biggest transformation that I've made. But I've also been in situations where I've come in, I've assessed, you know, assessed a new job that I've gone and said, okay, I try to think about, you know, how can we make this better?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:17:49:15 - 00:18:11:01)

How can you always make it better? How can you always make whatever business you're leading, whatever segment you're leading better after you're there than before before you got there? So strategically, I always try and think towards the future. How can we continue to get better? How can we continue to get better? And I think that's one of the secrets as well.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:18:11:03 - 00:18:33:28)

There's another secret. Can I tell you one more secret? Because. You know, I thrive in a culture that is is more of a team and culture is is what I would say. Right there are I work for four companies. I've seen different cultures. There are some that are more transactional or hierarchical. You lead based on your title and who you you know, what your stature is.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:18:34:01 - 00:19:04:19)

The companies that I prefer to in just from a cultural preference, are companies where, you know, you pick up the phone and you're like, hey, have you thought about this? Or hey, let me pull you in. It's it's really that kind of networking, teaming everybody in the pool type culture. So one of the things that I believe has made me successful is one, you have to kind of assume the best in people because people make mistakes sometimes it's easy to misinterpret things on email.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:19:04:26 - 00:19:14:02)

Now, and to assume the best have the conversation and really pull people into the conversation versus exclude them.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:19:14:05 - 00:19:33:05)

Let's talk about this. You saw talk you mentioned about science and serendipity. Which can infer this notion of an outlier. How do you think about outliers. Do you study outliers; How does that inform your pattern recognition?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:19:33:08 - 00:19:36:27)

I do study outliers when I see something which might be interesting in.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:19:36:27 - 00:20:00:00)

The context of pharmaceutical, because when you talk about research and development, right, you all run trials across population sets and you're looking for consistency in how patients respond to clinical trials for you then to go to all the different steps in the value chain to locking in on a particular clinical solution and that commercialization process.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:20:00:00 - 00:20:23:03)

True. But we're also looking for differentiation. So you have to look for outliers. Right. Sometimes it's the most efficacious or the product that you have to give the least times per year. Now not even, you know, used to be everything was daily. Now, you know, sometimes it's quarterly, but you really have to look for that differentiation. But I look for I look for differentiation and outliers in the commercial space.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:20:23:10 - 00:20:44:25)

What are different models that people are trying? What are what are leaders in different industries trying. So sometimes I look at other industries that have maybe not the same issues, but similar issues. How are they looking to solve it? How are they, you know, what tools are they using? So I think it's always helpful to keep your aperture as wide as possible.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:20:45:02 - 00:20:49:27)

And looking for differentiators. And therefore you're going to look you're going to look at outliers.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:20:49:27 - 00:20:58:14)

Is there an example from another industry that has been value additive for you in terms of the problem solving you've done at Johnson and Johnson?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:20:58:14 - 00:21:26:13)

For example, you know, I think about our communications function, our corporate marketing function and Johnson and Johnson is a very recognized and well known company. But we're always thinking about our reputation and how we continue to advance that, how we ensure that our key stakeholders understand what we do and who we are. So I I'm not just talking to I don't just talk to health care companies.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:21:26:13 - 00:21:47:21)

I talk to oil and gas. I talk to technology companies. I want to hear how they're thinking about some of these issues. And everybody's just, you know, a little bit different in the space that they hold and the space of they even hold in the mind of their stakeholders. But thinking about how they think about it is sometimes fascinating.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:21:47:23 - 00:22:15:12)

The other industry that I'm, looking to talk to and I have something coming up, is banking again, you would say, what is banking and pharmaceuticals or medical technologies have to do with each other? And it's probably not a whole heck of a lot. But the thinking behind how those leaders are thinking about the the solving the problems that they have or the, the, marketing challenges that they have is sometimes really fascinating and can trigger new ideas in terms of how we can look at things.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:22:15:15 - 00:22:26:05)

Artificial intelligence is the new norm. Talk about top use cases at scale where you all are investing.  And the outcomes it's driving.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:22:26:08 - 00:23:20:21)

So we're investing across the board. It's everything from commercial models and you know predicting even like you know where our sales force should be, how they should be speaking to key stakeholders in terms of educating them, how can they help through that process and recognizing that. But I think the really exciting space, outside of all the technology things in data, things that we're doing is in the drug discovery area because drug discovery, you know, has advanced from a little bit of trial and error to, really trying to be predictive in, especially when you look at, at, you know, proteins, how these how can you design a new molecule or a protein to interact

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:23:20:21 - 00:23:51:05)

in a certain way with a receptor that can, you know, upregulate down, regulate something that causes disease? So it goes I mean, theoretically, this is going to go well beyond what humans can do, because you can predict what it is you can design, you know, you can think through the design of a thousand different things and what might actually fit into that versus having to create a bunch of those assets and then do the experiments to see if they work.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:23:51:08 - 00:24:01:20)

So I think that the next, you know, ten, 20 years within health care are going to outstrip, you know, even the last 100 years in terms of the innovation that's going to come.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:24:01:25 - 00:24:21:04)

So, you know, I thought that just immediately has come to my mind is a few weeks ago, I moderated a panel, and one of your colleagues from the Johnson and Johnson Innovation Center was there, as she talked about artificial intelligence. They're no longer being therapy. They're no longer having to be specific therapeutic areas. That's right. That it's talk about that that it's all holistic.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:24:21:04 - 00:24:22:00)

That's all it is.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:24:22:02 - 00:24:46:03)

Especially so like I can talk about immunology. So if you think about, you know, something that will interact with your immune system, there can be multiple diseases that get turned on or off by that certain by that certain receptor and that certain type of product. So we even have products in our pipeline now that like for example, go across our neuroscience area and our immunology area.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:24:46:03 - 00:25:11:12)

So as we continue to advance the science, you're going to see, you know, things go to more the basic especially in immunology when you look at oncology as well. Right. So the scientists are really starting to understand, you know, how all of these things can can work in the human body where the sciences and then the different disease states that are, that are triggered by different things in your body?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:25:11:12 - 00:25:12:22)

It's it's really fascinating.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:25:12:23 - 00:25:22:07)

Talk about how this will be a game changer for stakeholder experience and maybe touch on the providers, the patient, the payer.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:25:22:09 - 00:25:41:08)

So, you know, the stakeholder experience. I think you're going to see a lot of innovation coming. I mean, I remember or maybe you remember. Do you remember when they mapped the entire human genome and everybody was like, it was like 20 years ago? I still remember I think I might have been like an associate product manager. And everybody was very excited.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:25:41:10 - 00:26:12:20)

And then it seemed like nothing happened. Well, you know, flash forward to today and the understanding of human biology is like a it's shifted incredibly, right. It's shifted incredibly. So when you start seeing new therapeutics come to market, you know, now we have I have companies that have gene therapy on the market. Right. You click Crispr technology. You're going to continue to see advancement in potentially curative solutions for diseases that were thought to be incurable, right.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:26:12:20 - 00:26:40:01)

Sickle cell for example. So, you know, that's going to take a lot of stakeholder engagement in terms of getting to the point where hospitals and physicians are educated and ready to administer the product. It's going to take work with the payers to help them understand the value of the products and the value that they bring to the patient, and how that's a longer term solution versus, you know, years and years of therapy.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:26:40:06 - 00:26:55:26)

So it does take work throughout the ecosystem to bring these to market. It's not just the science. It's not just the FDA. It is working with the core stakeholders that are going to deliver the therapies and as well as, assisting employers and payers and understanding the value that they bring.

The Magic

Chitra Nawbatt (00:26:55:28 - 00:27:12:06)

You used a word earlier, serendipity. I wanted to get one to I want to get into that. Okay. Let's get into the magic, if you will, to how do you define serendipity and talk about where serendipity was critical to a business outcome.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:27:12:09 - 00:27:33:24)

Serendipity out to a business outcome. So, you know, maybe it's not serendipity. When I think about when I think about innovation, there's a little bit of serendipity there. There has to be a spark. There has to be something that changes in our understanding of the science to get us there. Right. It happened with all major drug classes. If you think about the statins, right.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:27:33:25 - 00:27:56:02)

Serendipity got you into that big class because there was a there was a different understanding of a mechanism that could get you to a totally different place. We're seeing that with like GLP ones. Right? You seen it, with many, many categories of therapy. You know, on the business side, I think it's a little bit different. I think I don't know if I'd call it serendipity.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:27:56:02 - 00:28:30:06)

I might call it it's like that spark of innovation. It's an moment. It's where you come up with creative solutions for problems that you're maybe thinking about in a different way. And that's why when I told you, you know, hey, I'll talk to oil and gas, I'll talk to tech, I'll talk to all of these different types of tax types of companies, because that's where serendipity comes from, because sometimes it can take and change the way you're thinking about something and you're like, wait a second, okay, although that's not exactly related to the problem that I'm solving, I've never thought about that type of solution before.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:28:30:12 - 00:28:37:16)

So it may not be serendipity, but it certainly is creative thinking in terms of, you know, reframing your problem into something else that you can solve. 

Chitra Nawbatt (00:28:37:16 - 00:28:43:26)

Vanessa, what's your advice on how to cultivate The CodeBreaker Mindset™?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:28:43:28 - 00:29:04:25)

My advice? Well, first of all, I would say, what's the worst thing that can happen? You got to keep that in mind. You have to be brave in your career, right? Think about essentially, what does that next step mean? What does that next step mean for me? What could it could potentially mean? What am I learning?

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:29:04:27 - 00:29:29:16)

I try and make sure that I'm always learning. I'm always reading. I'm always absorbing information from the world around me. And I think that's how you, you, you know, get to the point where you're a code breaker, because then you can see the patterns, you recognize the patterns, you can be open to insights from anywhere. And you can think, hey, wait a second, that's maybe not a crazy idea.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:29:29:16 - 00:29:53:05)

Let's try it. Let's fail fast. Let's see if it works. So I think it's really, you know, taking in that information, really being open to different experiences, really thinking about what's the worst thing that's going to happen is probably good things. Usually not the worst, even if it's the worst, it's usually navigable. So, that, that that's what I would say.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:29:53:05 - 00:30:13:03)

And you know what the last point when you because you've mentioned this a few times about what's the worst thing that can happen, how do you protect your mindset from the naysayers or others around who might be more inclined to sort of be like, oh, that's going to be a big career decision. That'll be a big career mistake.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:30:13:08 - 00:30:22:29)

That's going to be a big business mistake. You know? In other words, the sky's falling. So how do you protect your mindset, develop your self preservation, if you will.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:30:22:29 - 00:30:52:06)

Yeah. How do you get the shield so early in my career, I, I stepped into a position and I actually had a conversation with my manager, and I said, okay, why do you think I got this job? Like I was like, really questioning myself. Because again, similar to the position I'm in now, it was it was a developmental position where, you know, if I had progressed in marketing, I would have had like, I don't know, call it like six direct reports.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:30:52:08 - 00:31:12:28)

But I was moved into a role where I had a group of 50. Right. But it was not in that primary marketing function. It was actually in a support function. And so I'm like, oh, why did I get this job? Did I do something wrong? And she said, first of all, you got the job because you you deserve it.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:31:12:28 - 00:31:35:17)

And second, we want to develop you having all of these reports and you're not going to get that in the marketing department right now at this level. And, you should never, ever question why you got the job. It's about what you do with the job. Right? So I keep that in mind. We all have you know, we all have kind of imposter syndrome.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:31:35:17 - 00:31:56:07)

Sometimes if anybody tells you they've never had it, I don't know. They can teach me something then. But what I think you have to keep in mind is that, you know, I feel like I've worked really hard for every job I've had. Have there been people who have questioned some of the jobs I've taken, the decisions I'm making sure.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:31:56:09 - 00:32:16:13)

But I reflect on, you know, my own experience, what I want to achieve if I listen, am I having a good time? Am I having fun? Am I continuing to learn? Am I continuing to give back? Am I continuing to be able to coach and mentor others and contribute to society through my role? Hey, that's a win.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:32:16:15 - 00:32:20:28)

Vanessa, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

Vanessa Broadhurst (00:32:20:28 - 00:32:23:03)

This was fun.

Chitra Nawbatt (00:32:23:05 - 00:32:33:03)

Thank you for supporting The CodeBreaker Mindset™. For more episodes go to ChitraNawbatt.com to like and subscribe. Connect with me on social media: @ChitraNawbatt.